Wolf Kampmann | "The Schlager was a social seismograph"

Mr. Kampmann, what is Schlager ?

I tried to find a very personal definition of Schlager in the book. I didn't try to say what Schlager means in general, but rather what it means to me personally. First and foremost, I understand it as a musical phenomenon in German-speaking countries that lasted until around 1984...

… the year the so-called New German Wave came to an end …

Right. Everything that came after that has nothing to do with my Schlager.

In what way?

Schlager before 1984 had a completely different function than after 1984. Until then, Schlager often served as a kind of social seismograph. This was the case from the 1920s, with its Paul Linke operettas, right up to the 1970s. This is particularly evident in the post-war Schlager of the Federal Republic of Germany, which in many ways anticipated numerous social themes.

In your book, you argue that, contrary to popular belief, the pop music of this period was not predominantly conservative, but often progressive and subversive.

Exactly. Of course, on the one hand, they often sang about a somewhat kitschy, perfect world. But if you listen a little more closely, you realize that many of the popular songs of the time dealt with political themes: be it women's emancipation, sexual liberation, the integration of guest workers, consumer critique, or gentrification. I found that astonishing.

Do you have an example of this?

The song "Die üßsten Früchte (Fressen nur die großen Tiere)" by Peter Alexander, for example, is directed against predatory capitalism. Or Juliane Werding's album "In tiefer Trauer" (In Deeper Sorrow), which is an incredibly powerful countercultural statement. There are many such examples.

And all of that just stopped in 1984?

At least, to a large extent. After that, Schlager largely degenerated into heartbreak and party music. When I look at Helene Fischer today, for example, she's an android to me. A perfected, flawless Schlager machine, whose difference from a slick band like Rammstein is really only a matter of degree. This fundamentally distinguishes her from earlier Schlager stars, who often had some kind of flaw, not infrequently even something comical. Another reason why I consider 1984 to be a high point for Schlager: That was when Dieter Thomas Heck, the face of the show for many years, left the ZDF charts.

And Heck was supposed to be the face of the progressive pop song? He was an avowed conservative!

No, he was an SPD voter, at least for much of his life. Although he later campaigned for the CDU and was a close friend of Rainer Barzel (former CDU candidate for chancellor; author's note), during Willy Brandt's time he was close to the Social Democrats.

In the book, you also cite the multiculturalism of West German pop music, with stars like Roberto Blanco and Costa Cordalis, as an expression of its tolerance and cosmopolitanism. But from today's perspective, shouldn't we acknowledge that the images of the "friendly exotic" they conveyed were mostly superficial and kitschy—and thus ultimately nothing more than a staid, stereotypical exoticism?

Schlager was definitely kitsch – but then again, German culture in general has always been. In the book, I quote several lines from poems by Goethe, for example, that would probably have been too kitsch even for Schlager. And of course, Schlager played on clichés in many ways. So what? Unlike other genres, which have remained almost entirely white and male, Schlager was very international from the start. At least half of all successful Schlager stars came from abroad. And the central face of German Schlager in the 1970s, Chris Roberts, was stateless. Even though its marketing was often cliché-laden and kitschy, it was nevertheless an important sign of the visibility of other cultures in post-war German society.

At the beginning, you described Schlager as something genuinely German. Can you explain that in more detail?

Anything sung in German after 1945 was automatically considered a Schlager song. This is connected to the beginning of the popularization of American popular culture, such as rock 'n' roll, at that time. If you listen to a song like "Ich sprenge alle Ketten" (I'll Break All Chains) by Ricky Shayne today, complete with the screaming electric guitar and a singer who practically explodes and screams "No, no, no, no, no" like a madman, you'd say: That's German-language rock music. But back then, it was just Schlager.

Today, Schlager (pop music) polarizes like no other genre. You write in your book: "The consistent Schlager hater needs Schlager just as much as the passionate Schlager fan." Do you have an explanation for this?

Yes, it has a lot to do with not listening closely. But you also have to look closely: What is meant by the term? Is it referring to Ballermann, DJ Ötzi, Helene Fischer, or simply the Schlager of the sixties? When I show my students today – who mostly listen to electronic music in their private lives – a song like "Griechischer Wein" by Udo Jürgens, they suddenly say: That's not a Schlager, it's just a great song. In general, I believe that if we love something, we always need a kind of counterbalance to it. If I like techno, I can't like Schlager.

You yourself became known as a jazz journalist and, after initially falling in love with it in your childhood, you long disdained pop music and only rediscovered it later.

That's true. Maybe I'm a Schlager lover and hater in one.

Do you have any idea why 15-year-old Wolf Kampmann initially turned away from Schlager music?

This had something to do with my social environment. I think it's a completely normal process as a teenager to constantly discover new things and then temporarily want nothing to do with the things you knew before. I observe something similar with my children. So, as a teenager, when I discovered The Doors, Deep Purple, and Black Sabbath, I wanted nothing more to do with Howard Carpendale.

You grew up in the GDR, but were musically socialized there through the aforementioned ZDF hit parade, hosted by Dieter Thomas Heck. There was also a thriving pop music scene in the GDR, though it's given much less attention in the book. Why?

The book is deliberately not a compendium of German Schlager (pop music). My impression is that West German Schlager had a completely different political and social relevance. Anyone who wanted to create politically relevant art in the GDR could only do so in the wake of the SED (Socialist Unity Party). I was mostly bored by the lyrical outpourings of Schlager songwriters like Hartmut König or Kurt Demmler, who, incidentally, wrote not only for Schlager stars but also for rock bands like Puhdys or Karat. In addition, during my research, I actually went looking for literature on GDR Schlager – but then realized that there was hardly any.

You dedicated your book to Peter Brötzmann, an icon of free jazz. Is this an ironic, back-door distancing from Schlager music or a special form of dialectic?

Neither. It is exactly what it is: a dedication – but there's a little backstory to it. Because a few days before Brötzmann's death in 2023, I conducted a final interview with him. At the end of the conversation, I gathered my courage and said: Peter, be honest, you're a romantic at heart.

And what did he answer?

His answer was: I'm the ultimate romantic. I pulled myself together when he said that. But afterward, I cried. And when my editor later suggested the book needed a dedication, I didn't have to think about it for a second.

Wolf Kampmann: Show me the place in the sun, Osburg Verlag, 320 pp., paperback, 24 €.